Topics

Graph of hourly and daily models?


Si Chen
 

Hello,

We're almost done with our openeemeter integration.  We were able to generate a nice plot of the daily model based on the tutorial.  Is it possible also to generate a plot of the hourly model?


ngo.phil@...
 

Glad to hear it! Unfortunately, I haven't yet had the chance to build visualizations for the hourly model. There are a few challenges that make this a little harder than with the daily models. 1) There can be up to 12 separate models for 12 months of data 2) there are way more independent variables and parameters to visualize. It will certainly be possible to make nice visualizations but it will take some effort or a dedicated volunteer to help us get these across the line.


On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 3:12 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Hello,

We're almost done with our openeemeter integration.  We were able to generate a nice plot of the daily model based on the tutorial.  Is it possible also to generate a plot of the hourly model?


Steve Schmidt
 

Just my opinion, but I think a chart showing the hourly energy usage in three categories (base, heating, cooling) would be more useful than all the different model parameters.

  -Steve


On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:51 AM <ngo.phil@...> wrote:
Glad to hear it! Unfortunately, I haven't yet had the chance to build visualizations for the hourly model. There are a few challenges that make this a little harder than with the daily models. 1) There can be up to 12 separate models for 12 months of data 2) there are way more independent variables and parameters to visualize. It will certainly be possible to make nice visualizations but it will take some effort or a dedicated volunteer to help us get these across the line.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 3:12 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Hello,

We're almost done with our openeemeter integration.  We were able to generate a nice plot of the daily model based on the tutorial.  Is it possible also to generate a plot of the hourly model?


Si Chen
 

Thanks for letting us know.  

Yes, I agree it would be nice to get energy use by category, but how do we get that information?

-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais




On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:55 AM Steve Schmidt <steve@...> wrote:
Just my opinion, but I think a chart showing the hourly energy usage in three categories (base, heating, cooling) would be more useful than all the different model parameters.

  -Steve


On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:51 AM <ngo.phil@...> wrote:
Glad to hear it! Unfortunately, I haven't yet had the chance to build visualizations for the hourly model. There are a few challenges that make this a little harder than with the daily models. 1) There can be up to 12 separate models for 12 months of data 2) there are way more independent variables and parameters to visualize. It will certainly be possible to make nice visualizations but it will take some effort or a dedicated volunteer to help us get these across the line.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 3:12 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Hello,

We're almost done with our openeemeter integration.  We were able to generate a nice plot of the daily model based on the tutorial.  Is it possible also to generate a plot of the hourly model?


Stephen Suffian
 

The hourly models don't provide as straight-foward a means of disaggregation, as they construct separate model parameters for different temperature bins. So unlike the daily models where there is a single "cooling", "baseload", and "heating" coefficient, the hourly models have coefficients across up to 5 temperature bins. Additionally, the coefficients are different for each month. 


On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 12:21 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Thanks for letting us know.  

Yes, I agree it would be nice to get energy use by category, but how do we get that information?

-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais




On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:55 AM Steve Schmidt <steve@...> wrote:
Just my opinion, but I think a chart showing the hourly energy usage in three categories (base, heating, cooling) would be more useful than all the different model parameters.

  -Steve


On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:51 AM <ngo.phil@...> wrote:
Glad to hear it! Unfortunately, I haven't yet had the chance to build visualizations for the hourly model. There are a few challenges that make this a little harder than with the daily models. 1) There can be up to 12 separate models for 12 months of data 2) there are way more independent variables and parameters to visualize. It will certainly be possible to make nice visualizations but it will take some effort or a dedicated volunteer to help us get these across the line.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 3:12 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Hello,

We're almost done with our openeemeter integration.  We were able to generate a nice plot of the daily model based on the tutorial.  Is it possible also to generate a plot of the hourly model?


Si Chen
 

Interesting.  I've been curious about what else besides M&V the CalTrack models could be used for.  For example if you had heating, cooling, and baseload parameters, could you use that to compare across different buildings to determine which ones are more or less efficient?  Is that what you were thinking?
-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais



On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 9:34 AM Stephen Suffian <steve@...> wrote:
The hourly models don't provide as straight-foward a means of disaggregation, as they construct separate model parameters for different temperature bins. So unlike the daily models where there is a single "cooling", "baseload", and "heating" coefficient, the hourly models have coefficients across up to 5 temperature bins. Additionally, the coefficients are different for each month. 

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 12:21 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Thanks for letting us know.  

Yes, I agree it would be nice to get energy use by category, but how do we get that information?

-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais




On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:55 AM Steve Schmidt <steve@...> wrote:
Just my opinion, but I think a chart showing the hourly energy usage in three categories (base, heating, cooling) would be more useful than all the different model parameters.

  -Steve


On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:51 AM <ngo.phil@...> wrote:
Glad to hear it! Unfortunately, I haven't yet had the chance to build visualizations for the hourly model. There are a few challenges that make this a little harder than with the daily models. 1) There can be up to 12 separate models for 12 months of data 2) there are way more independent variables and parameters to visualize. It will certainly be possible to make nice visualizations but it will take some effort or a dedicated volunteer to help us get these across the line.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 3:12 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Hello,

We're almost done with our openeemeter integration.  We were able to generate a nice plot of the daily model based on the tutorial.  Is it possible also to generate a plot of the hourly model?


Steve Schmidt
 

To determine efficiency you also need to know the amount of conditioned space. My intent is more to determine the accuracy of results against something that can be measured (like actual cooling energy).

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 3:27 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Interesting.  I've been curious about what else besides M&V the CalTrack models could be used for.  For example if you had heating, cooling, and baseload parameters, could you use that to compare across different buildings to determine which ones are more or less efficient?  Is that what you were thinking?
-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais



On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 9:34 AM Stephen Suffian <steve@...> wrote:
The hourly models don't provide as straight-foward a means of disaggregation, as they construct separate model parameters for different temperature bins. So unlike the daily models where there is a single "cooling", "baseload", and "heating" coefficient, the hourly models have coefficients across up to 5 temperature bins. Additionally, the coefficients are different for each month. 

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 12:21 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Thanks for letting us know.  

Yes, I agree it would be nice to get energy use by category, but how do we get that information?

-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais




On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:55 AM Steve Schmidt <steve@...> wrote:
Just my opinion, but I think a chart showing the hourly energy usage in three categories (base, heating, cooling) would be more useful than all the different model parameters.

  -Steve


On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:51 AM <ngo.phil@...> wrote:
Glad to hear it! Unfortunately, I haven't yet had the chance to build visualizations for the hourly model. There are a few challenges that make this a little harder than with the daily models. 1) There can be up to 12 separate models for 12 months of data 2) there are way more independent variables and parameters to visualize. It will certainly be possible to make nice visualizations but it will take some effort or a dedicated volunteer to help us get these across the line.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 3:12 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Hello,

We're almost done with our openeemeter integration.  We were able to generate a nice plot of the daily model based on the tutorial.  Is it possible also to generate a plot of the hourly model?


Si Chen
 

Interesting.  Do you mean comparing the model's cooling energy versus actual energy use of the equipment, for example with a virtual meter?
 
-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais



On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 4:11 PM Steve Schmidt <steve@...> wrote:
To determine efficiency you also need to know the amount of conditioned space. My intent is more to determine the accuracy of results against something that can be measured (like actual cooling energy).

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 3:27 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Interesting.  I've been curious about what else besides M&V the CalTrack models could be used for.  For example if you had heating, cooling, and baseload parameters, could you use that to compare across different buildings to determine which ones are more or less efficient?  Is that what you were thinking?
-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais



On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 9:34 AM Stephen Suffian <steve@...> wrote:
The hourly models don't provide as straight-foward a means of disaggregation, as they construct separate model parameters for different temperature bins. So unlike the daily models where there is a single "cooling", "baseload", and "heating" coefficient, the hourly models have coefficients across up to 5 temperature bins. Additionally, the coefficients are different for each month. 

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 12:21 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Thanks for letting us know.  

Yes, I agree it would be nice to get energy use by category, but how do we get that information?

-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais




On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:55 AM Steve Schmidt <steve@...> wrote:
Just my opinion, but I think a chart showing the hourly energy usage in three categories (base, heating, cooling) would be more useful than all the different model parameters.

  -Steve


On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:51 AM <ngo.phil@...> wrote:
Glad to hear it! Unfortunately, I haven't yet had the chance to build visualizations for the hourly model. There are a few challenges that make this a little harder than with the daily models. 1) There can be up to 12 separate models for 12 months of data 2) there are way more independent variables and parameters to visualize. It will certainly be possible to make nice visualizations but it will take some effort or a dedicated volunteer to help us get these across the line.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 3:12 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Hello,

We're almost done with our openeemeter integration.  We were able to generate a nice plot of the daily model based on the tutorial.  Is it possible also to generate a plot of the hourly model?


Steve Schmidt
 

Correct, but not with a virtual meter. Best to use a submetering device like this: https://efergy.com/engage-sub-metering-kit/

The three CalTRACK methods (monthly, daily & hourly) can produce different results among themselves, and when compared to other tools. Until we compare results to ground truth we have no way to know how good each model is, and no way to know which aspects of the models need to be improved.

 -Steve


On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 9:40 AM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Interesting.  Do you mean comparing the model's cooling energy versus actual energy use of the equipment, for example with a virtual meter?
 
-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais



On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 4:11 PM Steve Schmidt <steve@...> wrote:
To determine efficiency you also need to know the amount of conditioned space. My intent is more to determine the accuracy of results against something that can be measured (like actual cooling energy).

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 3:27 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Interesting.  I've been curious about what else besides M&V the CalTrack models could be used for.  For example if you had heating, cooling, and baseload parameters, could you use that to compare across different buildings to determine which ones are more or less efficient?  Is that what you were thinking?
-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais



On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 9:34 AM Stephen Suffian <steve@...> wrote:
The hourly models don't provide as straight-foward a means of disaggregation, as they construct separate model parameters for different temperature bins. So unlike the daily models where there is a single "cooling", "baseload", and "heating" coefficient, the hourly models have coefficients across up to 5 temperature bins. Additionally, the coefficients are different for each month. 

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 12:21 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Thanks for letting us know.  

Yes, I agree it would be nice to get energy use by category, but how do we get that information?

-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais




On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:55 AM Steve Schmidt <steve@...> wrote:
Just my opinion, but I think a chart showing the hourly energy usage in three categories (base, heating, cooling) would be more useful than all the different model parameters.

  -Steve


On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:51 AM <ngo.phil@...> wrote:
Glad to hear it! Unfortunately, I haven't yet had the chance to build visualizations for the hourly model. There are a few challenges that make this a little harder than with the daily models. 1) There can be up to 12 separate models for 12 months of data 2) there are way more independent variables and parameters to visualize. It will certainly be possible to make nice visualizations but it will take some effort or a dedicated volunteer to help us get these across the line.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 3:12 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Hello,

We're almost done with our openeemeter integration.  We were able to generate a nice plot of the daily model based on the tutorial.  Is it possible also to generate a plot of the hourly model?


Si Chen
 

Do you feel a virtual meter would not be accurate enough?

Would this be something that the CalTrack group has or should be researching?

-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais



On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 10:34 AM Steve Schmidt <steve@...> wrote:
Correct, but not with a virtual meter. Best to use a submetering device like this: https://efergy.com/engage-sub-metering-kit/

The three CalTRACK methods (monthly, daily & hourly) can produce different results among themselves, and when compared to other tools. Until we compare results to ground truth we have no way to know how good each model is, and no way to know which aspects of the models need to be improved.

 -Steve


On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 9:40 AM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Interesting.  Do you mean comparing the model's cooling energy versus actual energy use of the equipment, for example with a virtual meter?
 
-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais



On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 4:11 PM Steve Schmidt <steve@...> wrote:
To determine efficiency you also need to know the amount of conditioned space. My intent is more to determine the accuracy of results against something that can be measured (like actual cooling energy).

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 3:27 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Interesting.  I've been curious about what else besides M&V the CalTrack models could be used for.  For example if you had heating, cooling, and baseload parameters, could you use that to compare across different buildings to determine which ones are more or less efficient?  Is that what you were thinking?
-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais



On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 9:34 AM Stephen Suffian <steve@...> wrote:
The hourly models don't provide as straight-foward a means of disaggregation, as they construct separate model parameters for different temperature bins. So unlike the daily models where there is a single "cooling", "baseload", and "heating" coefficient, the hourly models have coefficients across up to 5 temperature bins. Additionally, the coefficients are different for each month. 

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 12:21 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Thanks for letting us know.  

Yes, I agree it would be nice to get energy use by category, but how do we get that information?

-----
Si Chen
Open Source Strategies, Inc.

https://youtu.be/SGp-LwBLais




On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:55 AM Steve Schmidt <steve@...> wrote:
Just my opinion, but I think a chart showing the hourly energy usage in three categories (base, heating, cooling) would be more useful than all the different model parameters.

  -Steve


On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 8:51 AM <ngo.phil@...> wrote:
Glad to hear it! Unfortunately, I haven't yet had the chance to build visualizations for the hourly model. There are a few challenges that make this a little harder than with the daily models. 1) There can be up to 12 separate models for 12 months of data 2) there are way more independent variables and parameters to visualize. It will certainly be possible to make nice visualizations but it will take some effort or a dedicated volunteer to help us get these across the line.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 3:12 PM Si Chen <sichen@...> wrote:
Hello,

We're almost done with our openeemeter integration.  We were able to generate a nice plot of the daily model based on the tutorial.  Is it possible also to generate a plot of the hourly model?